so I've been listening to y'all bitch and moan about XR and Earth Strike and quite frankly, I agree with you. So I've been drafting up a proposal for a loose network of activists (united by shared principles rather than with any official structure, think antifa) to work alongside such groups to try and make sure the climate movement isn't dissolved or crushed, and I've posted it as a page in the wiki. Please give it a read and share it if you like it, trynna get other propaganda stuff based around its principles on the go too

wiki.sunbeam.city/doku.php?id=

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:greensun: Climate collapse is class war

:greensun: Capitalism and centralisation have devastated our planet

:greensun: Direct Action and Autonomy - not looking to elected representatives for reform

:greensun: Climate issues are social issues

:greensun: Consensus is key - All Power to the People!

:greensun: Anti-Fascism

:greensun: Rejection of the state and police

:greensun: The climate struggle is an internationalist struggle

@scottishwobbly consensus is bad actually, it means one person can block everyone else

@radikalgrafitio consensus isn't the same thing as unanimity, one person can try all they like to block shit, if the overwhelming majority of the group disagree then they wouldn't be able to block anything. I didn't say direct democracy because it's not feasible to function that way in a group without formal structure

@scottishwobbly well, consensus is an actual formal discussion making procedure though, which includes blocks, which people do use
maybe you meant something different, but in the context this seemed most likely

also, if you have a group without a formal structure it still has an informal structure, so it tends to be result in the most popular, more confidant, longer term members having disproportionate influence, with structures this can be managed to some degree

you also call this a federation, but a federation a a set of groups which federate together and make some decisions collectivity
what your describing is a network, which is fine, both federations and networks have there uses, and federations can probably form out of networks, but they are different things

@radikalgrafitio a federation of worker co-ops and community assemblies is what the proposal aims towards, but it's more a loose network yeah, also honestly this is what I meant by consensus, nothing complicated

@scottishwobbly @radikalgrafitio
You'll probably find, esp. in the context of NVDA / climate focused groups that when you say "consensus" people will already have an expectation of a specific process, probably very similar to this:
seedsforchange.org.uk/resource
If that's not what you mean, avoiding the word will avoid confusion.

@scottishwobbly How about instead of/in addition to consensus using the principle of dictatorship of the initiative?

@restioson how about just general agreement so that groups can decide which method is best for them locally?

@scottishwobbly well obviously each situation will require its own decision making process. Dictatorship of the initiative is perhaps a useful tool though, for some teams and organisational structures/level if not all. For instance, the group in the UK would have externally dictatorship of the initiative -- it wouldnt have to seek consensus from the USA group unless it affected the USA group as well (in which case they would be involved and be involved in decision making).

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