It's mind boggling how basically all distros' update solution is to just substitute the old files with the new ones in-place and think everything's gonna be fine.

Do distro maintainers/devs not realise that the new packages are likely to be loaded and not work because of version mismatches with the running system?

Example: Running a KDE session, updating Plasma-related packages and then trying to exit the session but the confirmation dialogue doesn't run. Not able to even log out! That's a terrible experience for a tech-illiterate user. What are they supposed to do besides unplugging the power cord?

At least have the sensibility to only update on system shutdown or early in the boot sequence.


I am convinced that what needs is an accessible (for non-technical users) or based distro with graphical install, package management, system configuration and revision/generation management tools, so that common people can benefit from reproducible package management and configuration without becoming sysadmins or developers.

I ache for the day when I don't have to recommend new users to use some Ubuntu-based distro just because they're the least terrible of all the non-programmer options.

@sudoreboot What I personnally did was to preconfigure debian using live-build (throught scription and just basically puting junks into /etc/skel).

I think it's satisfactory in some way, because debian is generally speaking low maintenance.

The few problem I have with this solution is lingering bugs that won't get fixed until next debian release years after, while upstream did fix it very fast. But we don't have much of them, and we can go around it. It just doesn't look very professional.

@sudoreboot I wish I knew more about other systems though. I know I sticked with debian because the communities I know use it, and so it was easier to "team up" and make something collective ; I'm not even that aware of other distros that ain't debian or arch based.

@otyugh There is certainly something to be said for 's stability in the sense that it probably won't get borked with an update, but it's not going to be very attractive to someone who might play a lot of games and need up-to-date (free as well as proprietary) software.

Until there is a well-engineered and casual-friendly distro I would at least like a focused equivalent of . That's at least what was missing for my friend who gave up on the other day.

@sudoreboot Do we agree that gamers are a really small portion of computer users ?

Also some effort was made in that direction ; the main problem is still... Copyright in fact ? Even with all theses obstacles we can see theses kind of stuff out there :

Also most games I tried from GOG or worked flawlessly without doing much.

@sudoreboot Of course if we are talking big AAA games, sure. But I don't know any distro that really do that without breaking at some point, or requiring some kind of time and meddling to make it work every now and then.

@sudoreboot I personnaly am weak on theses. I have a dedicaced hard drive with windows and games.

I wasted hours mixing closed source software to my distro, sometimes doing dangerous things with my workaspace out of exasperation ^^'

@otyugh I don't really play AAA games (which are usually the ones broken because they use anti-cheat) so I probably have less trouble playing games than others. On NixOS Steam works perfectly fine and off the top of my head I can't think of any games I want to play but can't (though I'm sure there are some).

@sudoreboot If you endorse NixOS I may flash it on a usb stick, if someone ask me he want to play on linux then. As I'm pretty much hating proprietary firmwares debugging and steam stuff, I've got an hard time helping theses kind of people usually (but it doesn't happens often IMHO youngs gamers seem to be focused on smartphone/console, and olders people already have their habits they won't change anytime soon).

@otyugh I endorse its underlying principles and architecture but I would hesitate to recommend it as a main OS for someone who isn't willing to learn new programming concepts or at least a new language. I really wish I could.

There is currently no realistic way to avoid using Nix (the language) if you're running NixOS (or Guile on GuixSD). This is the crux of the matter.

@sudoreboot Heh, no good then. Maybe their SteamOs stuff they bragged about then.

@otyugh Sadly SteamOS is quite neglected by Valve. It might suffice for casual console-like gaming, but it's definitely not for power users or the desktop.

As I mentioned, is the only distro I know of right now that provides a solid experience out of the box.

@otyugh I think gamers make up a small portion of total Linux users right now, but they're plenty enough to make PC gaming a huge industry and if you get more of that audience to move to Linux then it will gain a lot of traction.

Consider also that people who play PC games are probably the family IT-consultant, so you have them install Linux on their family members' computers and all of a sudden you got Year of the Linux Desktop.

That just leaves the offices and the corruption scheme that is [insert state agency] :heart: Microsoft.

@sudoreboot Yeah, I could use an easier encrypted Guix installation. Debian with KDE has been painless this year. I wonder if new users could handle that, but I like how Guix teaches people to program a little. I guess it could be like Emacs where you have your choice of configuring in elisp or through the graphical configure modes.

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