🔘 I'm in this picture and I don't like it.
@InvaderXan I'm sure they'd hate the way I talk even if I had learned French perfectly - I learned Québécois French.
@anne It's the wrong French!! 😮
@InvaderXan We've had people from France complain that they found it easier to communicate in English than on Quebecois French.
In Quebec - where I grew up - language is an active political issue, and no matter how bad your French people prefer you try it first even if they then switch to English. And I understand it, in a province with a French Catholic majority that was run by the English Protestant minority.
@InvaderXan I once tried to order something in French and the vendor just responded in English without missing a beat. Somehow, that felt even more insulting than if he just hadn't understood me.
I am currently in France. And yes, that happens to me almost daily. 😅
@alysonsee The funny part is, I’ve heard stories a lot like this one before. I wonder how often this happens! 😂
@InvaderXan @alysonsee Here's another story: I helped out at an info booth at https://2017.rmll.info/. My rudimental French was enough to get the basics across, but when the topic got more complex, I apologized and asked (in French) if it would be possible to continue the conversation in English. On two of such occasions, the person I was talking to just turned around and left without any further word as if I'd magically disappeared.
@InvaderXan I don't quite relate but this really tracks with what I've heard about French people. I actually thought, that was just some xenophobic bullshit but I guess not :D
Honestly, this has happened with friends of mine. I'll say something. They'll look confused. I'll say it again. They'll look more confused. Then they'll suddenly say "Ohhh!" and then they'll say the exact thing I just said, with a nearly imperceptible difference in the pronunciation of just one vowel.
@InvaderXan That is very, very strange. Does France not have different dialects? I genuinely don't know. I only kow that Canadian French is different and that they hate it.
@Juju Yeah, it does, that's the strange part. Like, come on, my pronunciation can't be *that* bad... can it?
Also, Parisians often seem to speak quite fast, which doesn't make my life easier TBH.
In fairness, this happened to me a couple of times in Japan. Like, I'd have to repeat myself a couple of times before a waiter would understand me. Then a Japanese friend would turn to me afterwards and say something like "I don't know what that was about. I thought you said that perfectly."
Found it if you were curious:
Oh, I didn't know that about German. That makes sense!
The double-t is interesting. If you go to some parts of Scotland the double-t is replaced by a glottal stop. And my favourite part of this is that the best way to demonstrate a glottal stop is to say "glottal stop" in a Glasgow accent!
This is true in several British accents, not just Scottish ones. Cockney, Geordie and some Yorkshire ones use glottal stops like that too.
@hollyamory Oh, you are an absolute delight! 💚
@InvaderXan @Juju @lapis @Neea @maloki
It is just English where you cannot find anything useful for learning the IPA. Where I come from, the IPA is the way to teach school children how to pronounce the new vocabulary they are learning. All dictionaries I own, safe for a few English <-> language I have, contain IPA as pronounciation guide.
@InvaderXan @maloki @Juju I've observed that depending on context, I will be listening in the wrong language. If someone perceives you as a non Japanese speaker, it's possible they would be listening for English, and not able to parse the Japanese words you're saying, because they expect the phonemes they hear to correspond to a different set of morphemes (I think that terminology is right...)
In my experience, the Japanese are less confused by our pronounciation, but by the rhythm and melody we put onto Japanese. Japanese is a flat but rhythmic language. Any melody will make it sound weird. And the strict rhythm, especially the length of vowels is a pain for anyone who grew up with European languages.
@attilakinali @maloki @Juju
Yeah, a lot of gaijin say things wrong without realising. 東京's pronounced Tōkyō not TOE-key-OH. But other than getting the long and short vowel sounds right, it's not really that rigid.
Also, Japanese is really not flat. In fact, it's quite melodic, but the intonations and inflections used by a Japanese speaker are different to what a European might expect. Intonation is also used to distinguish betwen homophones in speech, like 蜘蛛 and 雲, or 橋 and 箸.
@InvaderXan When I was in France with my Boyfriend for vacation, we started out taking turns going to the bakery in the morning to get a baguette, but even though my boyfriends pronunciation of "une/deux baguette(s) s'il vous plaît" wasn't bad in my ears, he always had to resort to vigorous pointing and the person was still confused :D
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