Working in science, I'm always one rejected funding proposal away from becoming a comic book supervillain.

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For real though, I don't get why anyone working in science in the 21st century would be anything other than anticapitalist. Or critical of it at the very least. It does nothing but make our lives difficult.

We're all constantly grovelling for funds. Important articles are hidden behind paywalls. We need to pay to get stuff published. And I'm so tired of hearing things like "yes we'd love to hire you, but we don't have any funding right now."

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@InvaderXan they might simply not think in terms of Capitalism vs X. I've never read an economist who uses the term, they speak rather of restriction on trade and incentives.

@malin
Hardly surprising. Economists talking broadly in terms of "capitalism" would be a bit like chemists talking broadly in terms of "chemicals". Their profession necessitates a more detailed and nuanced view.

@InvaderXan
Also, studying economics is not the same as studying economic theories. In the econ department there is no discussion of alternatives to capitalism. They don't even consider it
@malin

@InvaderXan They use those terms when studying all Economic entities, not just capitalist countries... unless you think all countries are Capitalist, in which case I'm not sure what the basis of comparison is.

Personally, I've found the terms of the 19th century fit poorly with the global, silicon-based exchanges of the modern era.

@InvaderXan
I know this pain all too well. My favorite has been trying to convince a funder of the financial value of species conservation.

@SolanumGF
Ugh. I hate having to think in terms of costs and values. Research just doesn't work that way.

@InvaderXan
Nope. My other one is when you have a boom year and suddenly the species isn't in decline.

@SolanumGF
Oh gods, that's no better than "it's cold outside today, so global warming must be over."

@InvaderXan
My current project is one of these and this year might be a boom year so it'll be interesting to see what data we get.

@InvaderXan Almost as if communism was one of Merton's norms for a reason

@InvaderXan
Private Grants are a thing.
I'm not saying they're better than public funding for pro-social R&D
I'm just saying that they're out there.

Also, consider people who get to go into academia because they come from privileged backgrounds and can afford to.
#sociologistonthescene

@Bones_and_Feathers
In physical science, those are even more competitive than the oversubscribed public funding sources. And getting away from people telling me what to work on is supposed to be why Iโ€™m here.

Also, I have considered those people. The fact that everyone thinks those people are the norm is precisely what makes things so difficult for the rest of us.

@InvaderXan
I'm glad that's already within your consideration.
I don't think I said that was the norm?
Perhaps next time I'll read your full argument before participating if you will make the details available?
*Backs their casual ass slowly out of the Vent*

@Bones_and_Feathers
Errr... no, you didn't say that. That was a thing I was telling you. Chill.

My point was that yes, there are people like that and they really don't help matters. Some people can afford to go without pay for a few months between contracts. The rest of us struggle in situations like that.

@InvaderXan same.

It takes a long time to unlearn the false promises of capitalism. Itโ€™s so engrained in the education process that even the most educated have a hard time seeing through it all.

Unfortunately (at least in the US) much non-commercial science funds come from the government, so youโ€™re at their mercy too.

@jbob
I can't speak for the US, but government funding is a double edged sword. On one hand, it's public funding and it's not driven by profit. On the other hand, governments are quite blasรฉ about cutting that funding on a whim.

@InvaderXan
>Yes we'd love to hire you, but we don't have any funding right now.

Does that mean you can't participate in the project, or just that they wouldn't be able to pay you if you participated?

@Wolf480pl
If means they canโ€™t afford to pay you. Generally, universities and research institutes will never say no to another pair of hands doing research for them. Having enough money to pay a salary tends to be the problem.

@InvaderXan well, I don't think replacing capitalism with sth else would change that, especially that universities are already mostly funded from tax money.

I agree about the paywall and pay-to-publish part though, that's a great example of capitalism leading to monpoly leading to abuse.

@Wolf480pl
If I didnโ€™t have to pay for food or rent, I could afford to wait until better funding was available. Instead of needing to get a meaningless job to pay bills, distracting me from whatever I was actually trying to do.

@Wolf480pl
If I didnโ€™t have to pay for food or rent, I could afford to wait until funding was available. Instead of needing to get a meaningless job to pay bills, distracting me from the research I was actually trying to do.

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