“But under communism, we wouldn’t own anything!”
You’re still paying off the mortgage on your house, you needed a bank loan to get your car, and you’re paying a subscription to watch movies, listen to music, and use software.
You don’t own anything under capitalism anyway.
@InvaderXan ...and I still don't really own my music and my software.
I can't resell them. I can't even _give them away_ if I don't want them anymore.
@InvaderXan I have a piece of paper that says I own a house, but if I stop payments, the bank takes "my" house. Kinda tells you who really owns it
It is interesting the misconceptions people have. Communism just means the government owns things that individuals own under capitalism. It doesn't mean people are slaves and can't own property.
I had a friend that was surprised China has a women's soccer team, because, "Aren't they all communist? How do they have games like soccer and stuff?"
@InvaderXan Even that is optimistic - I still have a long way to go until I can afford to get a mortgage and a loan for a car.
(Though to be fair, debt is much less of a thing outside the USA, so my parents actually own the house and have for a long while).
Disclaimer: I'm not a communist.
@InvaderXan As an anarchist who is involved in furthering collective ownership, I always make sure to differentiate between economic(!) private property and personal belongings.
I want to own copies of my entertainment! I want to own my computer, to the extent that I have a reasonable understanding of how it works & can make it work they I want.
DRM is private property taking precedance over personal property! I hate that.
@InvaderXan The only thing we could't own were apartments in apartment buildings. Those belonged to the state and were provided to people. However, apartments could be inherited by immediate family members: spouses, children.
Everything else could be owned. Cars, village houses, everything else. We had a car when I was a kid.
As for serious means of production, I don't think working people really own them much under capitalism.
@SeventhMagpie Yeah, I'm pretty sure that everyone who vocally bemoans communism and defends capitalism doesn't really understand what either of them are!
Exactly. And it has always angered me that with a simple lie like: "You wouldn't be able to own stuff!" capitalism kind of... stopped the wave? If you get what I mean.
Evolution of society could've gone a different route in the beginning of XX century. Lots of bad things probably wouldn't have happened. Stalin wouldn't have happened. Hitler wouldn't have happened.
Just to think of how much could have gone differently.
@SeventhMagpie This is the kind of alternate history fiction I'd like to read!
Of course, it wasn't just that lie. Decades of American propaganda and military interventions didn't exactly help.
Sunbeam City is a anticapitalist, antifascist solarpunk instance that is run collectively.