Administered by:
I thought the Vice President responded to the protestors in Phoenix with respect. She acknowledged their concerns and made an emphatic statement for a ceasefire. They've now protested by heckling at two consecutive rallies + the VP had a one-on-one meeting with representatives of the protest prior to Wisconsin rally. For mine, they've made their point - in a democracy they can continue to heckle but they've made their point. #harriswalz @kamalaharrisforpresidentnews
The wave of positivity fuelling the Harris camp is indeed a wonderful thing and Walz will be perfect VP. They're inspiring and I have no doubt will trounce Trump.
However the US-backed Israeli genocide is still taking place every single day. Yesterday the Israelis bombed a school and murdered over 100 people, claiming there was a ‘high probability’ a PIJ commander was inside.
How can you expect people to put aside their disgust of their country supporting an active genocide?
@BobLefridge I'm not and that's not what I wrote. I just expressed the view that they have communicated to the VP their distress and its clear she's got it. I'm sure she's doing everything she personally can to expedite a ceasefire.
@BobLefridge @NZedAUS no I don’t believe she is/will do anything other than give platitudes. The USA are the baddies.
It's a horrible situation. Even if she intends to stop the genocide when she's in power, and there's no indication of that so far, Harris can't afford to upset the Israelis before the election.
That gives Netanyahu free reign to continue his slaughter of innocents for at least another three months. Expecting those Americans protesting genocide to sit back and remain silent is a very big ask.
@BobLefridge @alpinefolk It's not Netanyahu, its more American Jewish voters (many of whom support a ceasefire).
@NZedAUS @BobLefridge @alpinefolk
Just a reminder that Kamala Harris has been talking about the need for a ceasefire ASAP for quite a few months now.
I think the assumption that she'll go back on that and won't do anything about it once elected, or even that Biden won't start pushing it harder once the election is over, is a bit too cynical.
I find it especially concerning that I've read multiple Palestinians and aid workers begging Americans to vote for Kamala Harris, because they don't see any other path to peace, and it feels like we have a bunch of Americans who've never even been to the Middle East shouting over them.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/25/politics/harris-netanyahu-israel-hamas-ceasefire/index.html
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/14/kamala-harris-gaza-palestinians-00131633
@Raccoon @NZedAUS @BobLefridge maybe. But I’m old enough to remember when Rafah was a red line… and yet they keep sending them money and weapons.
The US is Israel’s puppet at this point.
Edit: typo
@BobLefridge @alpinefolk @NZedAUS no, she can't afford to upset AIPAC and CUFI. We saw what happened to people they targeted in primaries, most recently Cori Bush. We need to neutralize their power.
@BobLefridge No one has to remain silent. There are ways to protest without alienating anyone and while understanding Harris has no leverage over Bibi right now. Not an ounce of leverage. And she may never have any, even as POTUS. What Bibi doesn’t get from the US, he can buy. And he can always use his nukes.
The vast majority of the bombs and missiles being dropped on civilians in Gaza are funded by US "military aid" (US taxpayers). Germany and the UK are providing lesser amounts, but the US owns the key to Israel's armoury.
Nukes are not an option so close to Israel.
@BobLefridge Israel has their OWN nukes. If we stop sending conventional munitions and Iran attacks directly, what do you think happens next?
Lordy, do people not learn all they can about a situation before they start telling others how it must be handled?
Sorry, but that's a weak argument. That the genocide should continue lest Israel nukes itself along with half of the middle east. Lordy!
@BobLefridge That’s not the argument.
Israel,won’t nuke itself, which you surely realize. You just aren’t smart enough to play out the different scenarios.
If we could control Bibi, we would have already.
Sorry if you took that literally. The fallout from nukes is not contained within the blast zone and the use of one in Gaza would contaminate the wider area for generations.
By the way, while it might be true that those who disagree with your world view are either misinformed or "not smart enough", it's unproductive to chuck around such unnecessary insults. Thanks.
@BobLefridge Bob, they wouldn’t use it Gaza. They don’t have to. They’ve already leveled it and made all infrastructure unstable by flooding the tunnels.
You’re really bad at this. Have you noticed Egypt hasn’t threatened Israel? Neither has Saudi or Qatar or UAE. Why is that?
October 7th killed more than just 1200 Israelis. That attack proved Bibi right.
Offensive weapons are already off the table. Not sending defensive munitions has consequences you cannot conceive of.
Again with the childish insults. You really can't help yourself, can you. I can't abide supporters of genocide so adieu to you.
@alpinefolk @BobLefridge I respectfully beg to differ...framing an incredibly complex situation as a simple "goodies v baddies" ignores the role of other Arab nations, other western orgs (UN/EU), multiple internal parties within Israel itself and Iran-backed terrorist orgs and more.
@NZedAUS @BobLefridge you are right, I do find it very simple. Funding genocide is ALWAYS bad.
@alpinefolk @BobLefridge it is of course..it's a moral outrage and atrocity. Stopping it and then establishing a restoration plan agreed to by all parties is far far less simple.
@NZedAUS @BobLefridge yes I agree establishing restoration will be hard. Forcing Israel to pay $100B to rebuild Gaza will be impossible. And as they’ve shown the main powers won’t care to spend their money on helping Gaza let alone negotiating land back to the Palestinians.
But ending it is simple. Withdraw all funding for Israel including economic sanctions for any continuation.
@alpinefolk @BobLefridge that is not going to happen. You can present that as your solution but it wont happen.
With genocide, there are no "goodies & baddies" -- only perpetrators and victims.
None of the situational complexity overrules the fact that the world is witnessing a horrific genocide, nor the fact that the current US administration is willingly supporting it. Without US weapons, Netanyahu would be impotent.
If I was American of course I'd vote for Harris & Walz because the alternative is the end of democracy. But ignore an active genocide? Sorry, can't do that.
@BobLefridge @alpinefolk repeat...I've never expressed the view that what is happening in Gaza can and should be ignored. I truly believe Harris has got their message and is working to conclude a binding ceasefire. Its not straightforward...there are many moveable parts to achieving a BINDING ceasefire.
@NZedAUS @BobLefridge I agree but it starts with putting pressure on Israel and denying them free reign to commit genocide.
As far as my Baddies comment. The US has never had any problem forcing regime change in poor countries or countries who are defying their wishes. But it’s all too hard for Israel… Always the baddies!
@alpinefolk @BobLefridge It also demands a different Israeli leadership.
@NZedAUS @alpinefolk @BobLefridge Absolutely f¥ck Bibi
@NZedAUS @alpinefolk @BobLefridge Yeah, the way I see it there is that despite deplorable conditions before the war the way that Hamas attacked and took hostage Israeli civilians is entirety their responsibly.
It falls equally that the drawn out war, the conduct of the IDF and civilian price paid in the subsequent timeframe falls clearly to the current Israeli leadership.
I continue to pray we see a change towards peace and for peacemakers to rise up here.
@NZedAUS
In afraid I can't share your optimism that Harris is acting on the message in every way she can. I think it's clear that she is managing a situation. Obviously it's complex, and expecting a third party to impose a ceasefire is unrealistic. An arms embargo could be seen as damaging US ability to influence ceasefire negotiations. Even if (big if) that's the case it would still reduce the fire. Markedly. And add to pressure on Germany to also cut off the ammo.
@BobLefridge @alpinefolk
@RedRobyn @BobLefridge @alpinefolk you allude to the complexity - its not the US alone; its several EU nations. But as long as Iran-backed militias are attacking Israel there won't be an embargo and a GOP-led Senate won't agree to it.
@NZedAUS @RedRobyn @BobLefridge there’s always a reason to blame other parties. Despite what others do the US are responsible for their own actions and they choose to support genocide.
As for Iran, I don’t support them either but then Israel has attacked them directly and their proxies… do they have a right to defend themselves?