listening to Season of the Bitch talk about Emma Goldman :goldman: :ancom: :anarchy:

@interneteh property is the dominion over things And the denial.of the use of others of those things :goldman:

@interneteh the two biggest problems Emma said are that man must sell labor and that his inclination and judgment are subordinated to the will of a master. :goldman:

@interneteh All forms of government rely on violence and are therefore wrong, harmful and unnecessary :goldman:

@interneteh the hosts ask why aren't anarchists called Goldmanites? there are Leninists, Marxists, Trotskyists, even Stalinists. Why aren't there philosophies or theories named after woman? :goldman:

@interneteh but what about crime? don't we need a state to keep us safe from crime? Goldman writes we could turn every lamppost into a gallows without it having the slightest impact on crime one way or another. She says even lawmakers don't believe laws prevent crime

@interneteh she adds, most crimes are crimes against property and as such are products of poverty. If you want to prevent crime, eliminate poverty. :goldman:

Goldman was, of course, critical of all kinds of hierarchies, and wrote extensively about organized religion and militarism. Like Eugene Debs, she was also jailed for protesting WWI as an imperialist bloodletting.

She was critical of the first wave feminism of the suffragettes at the time in certain ways. There was an idea that women voters would be softer and less inclined to imperialism and war. Goldman wasn't buying this. To her, militarism is part of the state apparatus and you can't have a state that isn't imperialist, even if it includes women.

She got deported in 1919 for opposing conscription, which she viewed as a violation of people's rights.

she said she wanted women to be emancipated from emancipation. Relying on voting or relying on a state to give you your rights is just another kind of cage, she thought.

Free love? As if love is anything but free! Man has bought brains, but all the millions in the world have failed to buy love. Man has subdued bodies, but all the power on earth has been unable to subdue love. Man has conquered whole nations, but all his armies could not conquer love. Man has chained and fettered the spirit, but he has been utterly helpless before love. High on a throne, with all the splendor and pomp his gold can command, man is yet poor and desolate, if love passes him by. And if it stays, the poorest hovel is radiant with warmth, with life and color. Thus love has the magic power to make of a beggar a king. Yes, love is free; it can dwell in no other atmosphere.

She drew a hard line between a love based on equal partnership and marriage, based on transaction.

Love, the strongest and deepest element in all life, the harbinger of hope, of joy, of ecstasy; love, the defier of all laws, of all conventions; love, the freest, the most powerful moulder of human destiny; how can such an all-compelling force be synonymous with that poor little State and Church-begotten weed, marriage?

She wrote and spoke about how being queer wasn't unnatural or weird. She said it is a tragedy that people of a different sexual type are caught in a world which shows so little understanding for homosexuals and is so crassly indifferent to the variations of gender and their great significance in life.

basically she just thought women deserved to have free sexual lives with the partners they wanted. in the early 20th century. People weren't really talking about this stuff then. She understood the full ramifications of her philosophy and how it extended even to a personal level.

"...each and every individual is and ought to be free to own himself and to enjoy the full fruit of his labor; that man is absolved from all allegiance to the kings of authority and capital; that he has, by the very fact of his being, free access to the land and all means of production, and entire liberty of disposing of the fruits of his efforts" :goldman:

" achieve this end man must emancipate himself from the sacredness of property, the respect for man-made law, the fear of the Church, the cowardice of public opinion, the stupid arrogance of national, racial, religious, and sex superiority, and from the narrow puritanical conception of human life." :goldman:

@interneteh gonna guess a mixture of misogyny and anarchism's distaste for cults of personality

@wolf I suppose, but it's not a cult of personality to acknowledge the mental and moral contribution of someone

Tankies live for powerful people, anarchist live for themselves, I believe it's what Emma wouldve preferred

@mirzaba maybe, but it's more about recognizing the power of her ideas than anything else.

@interneteh I see you have already had a discussion ITT about cults of personality. more what i was getting at, sorry if invoking the word tanky bothered you. ah well. fwiw her contributions deserve to be observed more than they already are. She was rad.

@mirzaba she was so rad! literally! yeah that's what I wanted to talk about this morning

@interneteh @mirzaba Emma Goldman's Anarchism and Other Essays was my first entry into a more academic/serious understanding of anarchism. she greatly shaped what my beliefs are today

@polymerwitch @mirzaba one of the SOTB hosts said the same thing. she read it really young. I'll have to put it on my list

@interneteh @polymerwitch
i wish i started with goldman... my first anarchist person i read was stirner... lmao.

@mirzaba @interneteh lol. i have a distinct memory of reading The Ego and Its Own while attending a lecture from John Zerzan ... we all make mistakes 😝

@mirzaba @polymerwitch I have yet to read any anarchist literature at all. unless Ursula K Le Guin counts

@interneteh @mirzaba sure does. the more academic stuff can be really nerdy and fun, but it's not a requirement at all

@polymerwitch @interneteh
Oh my god the reading dense books vs not reading discourse is real. By the time I read the bread book I was not so much going like "wow this is insightful" and more like "yeah, faved and boosted bro". After enough learning leftism through conversations and articles and other non-book things, it reaches a point of diminishing returns to read books. Tho, specialized books about ecology and running a co-op for example, thats always gonna be useful.

@mirzaba @polymerwitch I have a big homesteading book that I've been eating up lately. it even covers growing and harvesting grains. get that bread

@ItsJenNotGabby I'm being told it's tankie to recognize the intellectual contributions of comrades I guess

@interneteh hahaha no it's the sexism.

Stalinists literally are tankies so that just doesn't even make fucking sense. Damn.

@ItsJenNotGabby @interneteh lol no...... Stalin was very dead when tankie was coined

@interneteh @ItsJenNotGabby the word "tankie" was coined to describe people outside the Soviet Union who defended the the Soviet Union's use of tanks to crush an uprising in Hungary in 1956

@jennie @interneteh i am aware. Many of them are hardline Stalinists as well. I don't care enough to continue this conversation bc I don't think it's that relevant to today ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@ItsJenNotGabby totes, I was mostly directing the comment at @interneteh, and also wanted an excuse to post the hungarian rebels' very cool flag

@jennie @ItsJenNotGabby I'm aware too. I'm also aware the word has modern usage that, for better or worse, extends beyond its origin.

@interneteh oof.... I need to apologize to you, I parsed the post I was replying to completely wrong

I read "it's tankie" as "it [the term I'm looking for to replace 'Goldmanite'] is *tankie*" and was just so confused about what the heck you might've meant by that.... Sorry for the non-sequitur reply! 😳

@interneteh @ItsJenNotGabby i can hold comrades in high esteem, but I don't want to live in a personality cult. Emma Goldman was great I talk about her all the time, but can we discount the missteps she made in promoting propaganda by the deed? Can we erase the history where she derided Lucy Parsons and the two were in a very public rift? and most importantly can we honor the ideas and contributions of those in the past while still learning and growing and creating our own unique takes on the world?

@polymerwitch @ItsJenNotGabby dang, I really did not anticipate this being controversial. my mistake I guess.

@interneteh @ItsJenNotGabby sorry, didn't mean to come off as (or be) combative. i think we are in 100% agreement that anarchist women comrades need far more recognition

@polymerwitch @ItsJenNotGabby that's all I was trying to say. in my opinion, that is a far cry from a personality cult. Anyway I did not know about the rivalries you mentioned. I will have to read into it more. thanks comrade

@interneteh @ItsJenNotGabby by "personality cult" i just meant naming ideologies after people. i'm not a fan of "goldmanite", "leninist", "stalinist", "bookchinite", "follower of Ocalan", etc

@polymerwitch @ItsJenNotGabby I'm not particularly either. I just thought the hosts were on to something by pointing out this only tends to happen with male thinkers.

@interneteh @interneteh In Politics Aristotle discusses how man’s evolutionary journey has predisposed him to the development and necessity of governmental convention. I’m still going through it, but the fact that he is exploring similar political ideologies in his time in Greece as we are today in America and Europe is a bit mind blowing.

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