@GreenandBlack
Their rhetoric is "Let's break as many eggs as we can. That way, we're sure to end up with omlettes!"

@puffinus_puffinus The strategy is to just throw 415 eggs at the wall and hope -some- of the yolk drips into the pan

@GreenandBlack @puffinus_puffinus
I don't understand your criticism. The activists are clearly very aware the situation and it doesn't seem at all like they're being abused by XR leadership. Why are you denying them their autonomy?

I for one applaud them.

@Maltimore @puffinus_puffinus Prison denies autonomy a damn sight more than criticism...

@GreenandBlack @puffinus_puffinus
I meant that you are talking as if the activists are not acting autonomously. As if they're being controlled by some "XR leadership".
The activists clearly know that they can end up in prison for 5 years.

@Maltimore @puffinus_puffinus The fact this has been coordinated directly by XR leadership officials with both Heathrow and the Metropolitan police, whilst every local XR group near Heathrow is adamantly against the plan, leads me to believe this is just more of the "Let's throw activists in jail to send a message" rhetoric that's been perpetuated by Hallam and his ilk since the start.

XR literature is literally telling people that solitary confinement, a method of torture, provides a "nice opportunity to meditate".

Criticism of the ideology and leadership of an organization =/= criticism of the people taking actions

@GreenandBlack @Maltimore @puffinus_puffinus see also: XR explicitly working against advice from noted protest lawyer firm Green and Blacks. They know they shouldn't do things like this, that it only serves to remove people from activist circles and easily has the capacity to destroy lives, and yet, here they are, encouraging 415 people to go to prison for zero gain

@Maltimore @GreenandBlack @puffinus_puffinus They're not being "controlled" by XR leadership, but they are being manipulated. They faced quite some backlash (rightfully so) for referring to prison as a yoga retreat: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-48147915

@strnom @Maltimore @GreenandBlack @puffinus_puffinus oh God, a yoga retreat? I wonder what they think living on welfare is like

@steven @strnom @GreenandBlack @puffinus_puffinus
every time I start typing a response, I get another notification that there's another comment on this.
So I'll just say generally
- the activists do this out of their own free will
- (therefore) I don't see the point in criticizing some XR leadership
- and especially I dislike the fact that people on the left always tear each other apart, instead of fighting those on the right or fighting for the climate.

@Maltimore @steven @strnom @puffinus_puffinus You say to an active antifascist coordinating with a local mutual aid group in order to take green anticapitalist action...

Fuck off with that "left unity" whataboutism, it ain't gonna work here

@GreenandBlack @steven @strnom @puffinus_puffinus
I'll block you now.

@Maltimore @steven @strnom @puffinus_puffinus k byeeee

@Maltimore
That's a real shame that you can't accept other people's views on these topics. At the very least, agree to disagree.

@GreenandBlack is incredibly woke and knowledgeable and most certainly an asset to the left.

@steven @strnom

@Maltimore @GreenandBlack @steven @strnom @puffinus_puffinus are extinction rebellion left? they act like cops

@Maltimore
I agree that endless internal criticism is not a good thing. It has its place, is good at informing, and keeps folks in check, but it shouldn't be the main focus. Also, it's easier to criticise than it is to get out and actually do stuff.
@steven @strnom @GreenandBlack

@Maltimore @steven @GreenandBlack @puffinus_puffinus
just because they do something willingly it doesn't mean they're not being exploited for someone else's benefit, particularly when they're being misled about the consequences of their actions (i.e. being told that prison is a fun time). i think it's important to protect fellow activists from organizations that clearly have no concern for their well-being. 415 people arrested for flying a drone means 415 less people on the streets fighting for climate action.

@strnom @Maltimore @steven @GreenandBlack @puffinus_puffinus

I suspect those who might think "prison is fun" probably attended private boarding schools in their younger days, and had enough social status there not to be targets of bullying (and/or could fight back).

being a former raver I know a fair few people who did short sentences for drug dealing or organising raves. The sentence often continues *after* release with employment chances reduced to 33 % >>

@strnom @Maltimore @steven @GreenandBlack @puffinus_puffinus

That is the findings of Nacro (a well respected NGO that helps rehabilitation of ex-offenders) - I currently work at a place which requires Enhanced DBS clearance and the DBS cert separates "crime from context", leaving prospective employees with an awkward situation at interview (even for /voluntary/ groups which support kids/vulnerable people which a lot of eco-activists also often work with)

@Maltimore
It's pretty brave to do something like this, but it's a case of picking your fights carefully. Five years in prison means they're not going to be contributing to the environmental struggle at a time when they're needed most. Why go out with a bang when you can stick around and wear steadily at the issues, creating more of an impact over a greater amount of time?
@GreenandBlack

@GreenandBlack
No seriously though, their logic is running in reverse. The whole 'movements with high arrests are more likely to cause positive change' may well be true, but to then run that backwards and say 'so let's get arrested' misses the point entirely.

@GreenandBlack Oh good, I'm not the only one to get that vibe from XR

@citrustwee my partner figured they were a honeypot when it first started up, I'm thinking it might be more accurate than I thought...

especially with this shite happening too

@GreenandBlack whoa. okay, yeah. that's 100% my theory now 😬

@steven right? the best thing about the last drone interruption was that nobody got caught, we still don't know who did it or why

Coordinating it like this, even taking steps to inform Heathrow and Metropolitan Police in advance, just makes me doubt any disruption will happen at all

@GreenandBlack there is 0% chance they will disrupt air travel if they told the fucking cops lol

I'm curious what you think about the Sunrise Movement in the US - unlike XR their actions seem to be more strategic

@steven @GreenandBlack Smells like the world's most expensive *chan op.

@GreenandBlack won't be surprised if liberal "peaceful protest" mass arrest movements pop up for every major fight in the struggle against capital now, it's got to be the most successful diversion of energy and round up of activists in recent history